Post by: greazee on November 23, 2007, 05:54:55 PM
Post by: Yded on November 23, 2007, 06:07:33 PM
i dont have access to the elite vent cuz its for runecore elites only, so why do that with rules?
Post by: JB Lee on November 23, 2007, 06:10:21 PM
The TTG rules are made by ME, not RuneCore elites...I did not do it as the owner of RuneCore, i did it as a member of TTG...
at the time, there were absolutely no rules other than the TTG rules that Josetann made which had nothing to do with the blackmarket like no warez / no porn and whatnot...
I asked repeatedly for a set of rules, nothing was done...people started doing things that were obviously bad, but nothing could be done because they "weren't in the rules"...
So, i made rules, i had pureblood pin them...no one complained...
---
I am REALLY getting sick of getting yelled at by everyone for trying to help the site...
Everything I do is in the best interest of the site, everything I say / suggest is something that I believe will more than help the site in a significant way...
And yet I am constantly getting flamed (both outright, and subtly) by just about everyone...
Post by: greazee on November 23, 2007, 06:10:40 PM
Post by: JB Lee on November 23, 2007, 06:15:13 PM
i dont have access to the elite vent cuz its for runecore elites only, so why do that with rules?[/quote]
The ventrilo server IS the RuneCore ventrilo server...when REAZEE through a fit and got RuneCore taken down by our hosting, causing what we thought was the end of RuneCore, I made it the TTG ventrilo server. then when RuneCore got opened back up a few days later, i returned it to the RuneCore ventrilo server and continued to allow TTG users onto it. The "Elite Channel" is for RuneCore elites only, as it is the RuneCore ventrilo server.
The thread pinned in the three main RS sections on TTG are not the RuneCore rules, they are the TTG rules. I edited the rules entirely to fit TTG. There are no rules about reputation system abuse in them, among many other differences.
If someone had taken up the responsibility of creating a list of rules back when I had brought it up in the first place, then I would not have done that. But of course, again, everything I do is wrong...
[quote name=\'Febreazee\' post=\'407786\' date=\'Nov 23 2007, 05:10 PM\']^^ exactly... unless every elite on ttg is elite on runecore then we shouldnt use the rules made by there elites...[/quote]
as I said, it wasn't made by the runecore elites...it was made by ME...
Me, as in the only person that cared enough to make them...
I did not go to RuneCore and say "hey, lets make rules for TTG"...i didnt even do that to make rules for RuneCore...
As the owner of RuneCore, I sat down and carefully thought them up for RuneCore...
And then, as the only person who cared enough to do it on TTG, i sat down and carefully thought up rules for TTG. Don't blame me if they are similar...the sites are, in fact, very similar...
Post by: JB Lee on November 23, 2007, 06:23:32 PM
I am changing is from:
Who should be the ones to make the TTG rules?
- TTG Elites
- RuneCore Elites
to:
Should we change the current list of rules?
- yes
- no
Yded and Reazee, please inform me of what you want to vote, as I have cleared your votes and you will be unable to physically vote now in the newly edited poll.
---
The RuneCore elites had nothing to do with the TTG Rules, or even the RuneCore rules...and I demand that they be left out of this...
Post by: greazee on November 23, 2007, 06:44:02 PM
Post by: JB Lee on November 23, 2007, 06:48:27 PM
just had to throw that in didn't you
/wink.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\';)\' /> added your vote.
Post by: Small Shoe Magoo on November 23, 2007, 06:58:25 PM
Post by: greazee on November 23, 2007, 07:07:19 PM
Post by: JB Lee on November 23, 2007, 08:16:54 PM
You might think that everyone knew the rules...but you can't just have rules that just float around...you have to make them into text so that everyone can see and understand them. Just saying "the rules state that you cant do this" isn't good enough if there isnt anythign that actually says it...
I actually took the time to write down rules...something that OBVIOUSLY needed to be done...i asked repeatedly, MANY TIMES, for someone to do it and I finally gave up...
The fact is: The RS Blackmarket section of TTG = an RS Blackmarket, RuneCore = an RS Blackmarket...the rules are bound to be similar...especially when it is the same person writing it...but what I don't like about it is that I am the one being yelled at for writing the rules...the only person who actually cared enough to do it is getting yelled at for doing it...thats just insane in my eyes...
[quote name=\'Zack The Man\' post=\'407810\' date=\'Nov 23 2007, 05:58 PM\']The rules are fine, except for a few, which I think should be discussed, for example, the punishment of phishing... etc.[/quote]
I really don't feel like getting into this again right now, but...
Phishing is illegal, i will give you that. But so is selling drugs, or killing a cat. Are you saying that we should ban anyone who admits to doing any type of illegal activity?
My answer to this would be, yes, if they are selling the drugs through he forum, or posting explicit pictures of themselves killing the cat. But if they did it outside of the forum, and it is in no-way connected to the site, then I really don't see a reason they should be banned.
Then you will probably say, "Well, they are scamming people on RuneScape, thats close enough"...well, are we going to ban someone off of TTG because they are luring in-game? Of course not...that would just be stupid... In game scamming is no where close to scamming someone on the forum. I will admit that if one scams in game it is probable more likely that they will scam on the forum. But more likely does not equal absolutely...
I say, as long as they aren't posting on TTG saying "Look RS3 Beta: <link>", then they really aren't doing anything worth a forum ban...
Of course, the final decision is up to Josetann, and I really hope he responds to this so that we can officially put the subject to rest.
Post by: littlefly1 on November 23, 2007, 08:34:13 PM
Post by: kirk hammett on November 23, 2007, 10:05:43 PM
e
s
Post by: greazee on November 24, 2007, 12:14:50 AM
Post by: JB Lee on November 24, 2007, 12:26:47 AM
I asked pureblood and allanon many times...I also asked repeatedly for the thread written by bloodogre about official MM's to be re-posted by someone who doesn't have "IM A SCAMMER!!!" in size 7 font in their sig...that got ignored as well...
Personally, I think that Rules should be written by the people who can enforce them...IE: Admins and Mods...or in TTG's case, Mods, since they are being written for a section in which the Admins are not the main rule enforcers. I gave Pureblood and Allanon more than enough chances and finally took it upon myself to make them.
---
Just because it isn't in posts on TTG doesn't mean I didn't say it. In the 5-6 hours a day I spend on ventrilo with them both, things such as this have come up more than you can imagine...
[quote name=\'Febreazee\' post=\'407902\' date=\'Nov 23 2007, 11:14 PM\']for the scenarios that were different from normal were handled individually... and they still should be, when it gets into complicated situations then there are rules better left liquid.[/quote]
and where did I say special situations wouldn't be taken into consideration? that happens all the time and is to be more than expected...
Post by: Small Shoe Magoo on November 24, 2007, 03:37:57 AM
It didn't need a long explanation of why you think phishing is alright to some extent.
Post by: Snake-Master on November 24, 2007, 06:04:04 AM
We coud remake the rules, but they would be the same as JBlees anyway, so just stick to the current ones.
PS - JBlee you SAT down to make up the rules, you mean you were STANDING in the first place, thats something new... Didnt know you could stand up
/ohmy.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':o\' />
Post by: JB Lee on November 24, 2007, 08:51:54 AM
That is not why jollyman got banned. I can't remember why, but I know it wasn't for phishing...i know allanon will remember though.
[quote name=\'The Cursed\' post=\'407941\' date=\'Nov 24 2007, 05:04 AM\']PS - JBlee you SAT down to make up the rules, you mean you were STANDING in the first place, thats something new... Didnt know you could stand up
/ohmy.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':o\' />[/quote]lol
[quote name=\'Zack The Man\' post=\'407927\' date=\'Nov 24 2007, 02:37 AM\'].... I said the topic should be discussed within the group, and that was not the only topic I was pointing at.
It didn't need a long explanation of why you think phishing is alright to some extent.[/quote]
I am pretty sure that discussion involves giving opinions...
Sorry if mine doesn't count of something, I was only giving mine...
Post by: greazee on November 24, 2007, 03:41:34 PM
We coud remake the rules, but they would be the same as JBlees anyway, so just stick to the current ones.
PS - JBlee you SAT down to make up the rules, you mean you were STANDING in the first place, thats something new... Didnt know you could stand up
/ohmy.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':o\' />[/quote]im not saying change the rules because JB Lee made them, im saying we had well known rules before and now they have been changed because of the Runecore rules... such as people with fake transactions... that used to get people banned here and when i told allanon about someone last night JB Lee pointed out that its only a "level 4 offense" which isnt getting banned... thats dumb that were gonna change the rules here because of Runecores rules... im saying we should stick with the original ones we had and not switch to the runecore ones which apparently happened at some point recently...
Post by: JB Lee on November 24, 2007, 03:45:52 PM
Quit callign the rules we have now the "RuneCore Rules" they ARE NOT the RuneCore rules...the rules that I have set up on RuneCore are different in many ways...
And you are trying to blame this whole fake transaction thing on me...as I said many times, it was Allanon that refused to let me ban someone with fake transactions, that was his rule. I had it listed as a level 5 but he told me to change to a level 4.
Stop trying to blame everything on me and RuneCore. The rules are completely different, and they did not replace any rules on TTG, there WERE NO RULES!
Post by: greazee on November 24, 2007, 04:04:15 PM
Quit callign the rules we have now the "RuneCore Rules" they ARE NOT the RuneCore rules...the rules that I have set up on RuneCore are different in many ways...
And you are trying to blame this whole fake transaction thing on me...as I said many times, it was Allanon that refused to let me ban someone with fake transactions, that was his rule. I had it listed as a level 5 but he told me to change to a level 4.
Stop trying to blame everything on me and RuneCore. The rules are completely different, and they did not replace any rules on TTG, there WERE NO RULES![/quote]
im not blaming the transaction thing on you or runecore, and how are those rules completely different? you copy and pasted them from runecore!
there were rules otherwise people wouldnt have been banned, your just trying to change this into something its not so that the real purpose behind this is forgotten and nothing changes.
Post by: JB Lee on November 24, 2007, 04:14:11 PM
There were no rules, just the people in charge doing things in a badly organized pattern...
---
And AGAIN, for the thousandth time...I did not just copy and paste the rules from RuneCore to TTG, i edited many of them, I took out many of them, I added many of them...
I wrote RuneCore's rules as the owner of RuneCore, and I wrote TTG's rules as a member of TTG...two different people (make a joke about bipolar disorder and i swear...)...two different sets of rules...don't blame me for them being similar, the site content and purpose is the exact same...
The rules work perfectly, and it took you 3 months to realize you had a problem with them...and that problem isn't even something that was originally intended to be in there...yell at Allanon until he agrees to let me change that rule...
Post by: greazee on November 24, 2007, 04:26:55 PM
believe it or not it lack of specific rules wasnt the problem, it was people enforcing them as well as a majority of the people who created the system left, stopped or scammed... its like a government being overthrown and right now this is the chaos of people who didnt create it and dont have the power trying to bring it back... and i honestly think we should get a say from everyone who has some sort of rank (elite, mods, admins) and can be trusted to make the right decision to help create these rules that will dictate the way this forum is run...
Post by: JB Lee on November 24, 2007, 04:35:13 PM
I made a big deal out of it because he appeared to have forgotten the entire argument we had months ago when I was writing the rules. He forced me to add it as a level 4 offense and then as soon as it comes up this time he acts like that never happened and wants to know why it isn't a level 5...
Post by: Allanon on November 24, 2007, 05:16:59 PM
When did I say that exactly? I argued it as an individual case, which it was, when it was Jay -/- Ze, not for anybody, I didn't argue fake transactions shouldn't be bannable, you just interpreted that way. Like Reazee said, there are certain individual situations, that you can't have a set in stone rule for.
But unless there is a rule somebody thinks is wrong, I see no point in having to change them... If they work and everybody agrees that they apply then what is the problem? The only thing that I see people disagree with is Phishing (not gonna talk about it beyond that) and the fake transactions thing. yea, if you disagree with something then talk about it and try and get it changed. No point in re-writing everything if we would end up coming up with the same things anyway.
Post by: greazee on November 24, 2007, 05:23:09 PM
Post by: Allanon on November 24, 2007, 05:26:27 PM
I can garuantee that 99% of the rules that were made for Runecore apply to TTG's past as well anyway. The only one I see as being problomatic is that transactions one, unless you can find a list of other specific rules you don't think apply to TTG, and a good explanation why, I see no need why most of them need to change at all.
Post by: MadHatter on November 24, 2007, 05:32:48 PM
Post by: Josetann on November 27, 2007, 05:55:24 PM
Post by: JB Lee on November 27, 2007, 05:59:17 PM
---
The only exception I think I would like to bring up is if someone scams at RuneCore. Since most of us are active there and the 3 active Mods (Myself, Allanon, and Pureblood) are the ones banning them from there, I think it would only make since to ban them from TTG while we are at it.
Post by: kirk hammett on November 27, 2007, 06:12:08 PM
keep em the same
Post by: Josetann on November 27, 2007, 08:48:57 PM
Level One Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: Warn//2nd: 1 hour no posting//3rd: 12 hour no posting//4th: 3 day suspension
* Completely Off-Topic Posts
Just tell them where the thread belongs and move it, Idle Chat is where everything goes that has no other place. If it's habitual, then suspend them.
* Posting in the Wrong Section
See above.
* Other spam posts such as "Good Luck"
I have no problem with people posting things like that. Now if someone is doing that just to increase their post count (joined one day ago with 500 posts with two words or less each), you can either have one of the admins do a mass-delete, or we can keep the posts but decrease their post count manually (mass-delete is better, if we ever do a recount then all their spam posts would count for them again).
* Double/Triple Posting
If there's multiple posts with the same thing in one thread, they might have had a time-out and didn't know their post went through. Just delete the extras. If you're talking about posting in multiple forums, just delete all the threads except for one.
* Asking to MM on people's threads
Whatever you think.
* Gravedigging
I have no problem with people replying to old posts. If they're expecting a response from the OP (such as in a for sale forum), feel free to point out when the thread was made and then close it.
Level Two Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: 1 hour no posting//2nd: 12 hour Suspension//3rd: 3 day Suspension//4th: 7 Day Suspension
* Flaming in Posts/Thread titles/polls/ANY FLAMING
I think some flaming is ok. If it gets heated they can take it to Idle Chat. If this is a real problem, I can create a separate "Anything Goes" forum where you can flame away).
* Making a thread directed at a single person (please send a PM)
Just point out that they're more likely to get a response with a PM, if they keep doing it then start warning/suspending them.
* Advertising in a section other than Idle Chat
If it's just one or two occurrences and they really didn't know better, point it out to them. If they know it's wrong and/or are spamming everywhere, immediate permanent ban.
* Posting a "Free MM" thread before having been a member for more than 1 month
Whatever
* Posting / Giving a Link to Porn
Nope, immediate ban. No warnings.
Level Three Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: 12 Hour No Posting//2nd: 3 Day Suspension//3rd: Report to Admin - Ban
* SELLING Any of the Following (its ok to give away for free):
- LEGAL Programs
- LEGAL Downloads
- LEGAL Movies / Games
They may do this, but it HAS to be legal. No just giving out a serial, they have to ship the software/movie/game/whatever. If it's an online only thing, then they have to have permission from the creator to transfer the license (many programs you buy online either let you transfer it to someone else and have a way to do this, or don't allow it at all).
* Selling, Giving Away, or Posting links to ILLEGAL downloads
Immediate ban.
* Saying that you are an Elite / Mod / Admin of RuneCore or TTG (through MSN, in sigs, or any other method)
If someone impersonates themselves as a moderator or an admin of this site on this site, then I will ban them. If they say they're a mod of this site on another site (i.e. they post on runecore saying they're a mod over here), I don't see a reason to ban them HERE, but definitely keep an eye on them. If they say they're a mod elsewhere and they're not and they say that on THIS site, then just call them out on it.
Level Four Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: 3 Day Suspension//2nd: Report to Admin - Ban
* Complete Spam (Same post over and over again)
If it's not advertising, warn them and mass-delete all their posts.
* Threatening to Hack the Site or another member (Non-Jokingly)
If I catch them threatening to hack my site, I'll just ban them.
* Buying or Selling Phishing/Pharming sites
Ban.
* Fake Transactions
Whatever.
Level Five Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: Immediate Ban//2nd: Hunted Down and Raped
Take out the second one, it's not appropriate for this forum.
* Scamming
* Actually Hacking the Site or Another Member
* Defacing a Site in ANY way that is affiliated with RuneCore or TTG
* Posting / Giving a Link to Malicious Software or Downloads
All ok except for last one, and I'd only be lenient if they possibly didn't know it was malicious. I.e. they try to be helpful and post a link to some anti-spyware program that actually contains spyware. As for posting keyloggers and what-not and making them look like hacks, then yeah they know what they're doing so ban them.
Post by: JB Lee on November 27, 2007, 09:17:03 PM
I will make the necessary adjustments as soon as I finish up something (or if another mod wants to take up the task now).
---
Just a few comments on your comments:
The posting / giving a link to porn was mainly directed towards the softcore-ish porn that people had in their sigs. *Usually* the people posting actually posting porn are spam-bots, which I have always banned immediately. I didn't really think to add the rule "Being a spam-bot - pemanent ban", lol. But for active users who have many posts and its their first offense of something that is only loosely classified as porn, I was giving that punishment.
Usually, along with Flaming comes Racism, cursing, and utter inappropriateness. But if you think that you can trust the members enough to keep the flaming clean, then I guess.
I updated the RuneCore rules awhile back to include "(open source)" in the selling LEGAL downloads / programs. I forgot to do the same here at TTG. This was meant to be a rule about not selling programs that you get for free, such as selling a download to Linux.
Post by: greazee on November 27, 2007, 09:19:46 PM
/ohmy.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':o\' /> thats exactly like ttg was before!
Post by: JB Lee on November 27, 2007, 11:45:35 PM
Level One Offences:
[Punishment] 1st: Warn//Repeating: Consequences may Incur
- Completely Off-Topic Posts
- Posting in the Wrong Section
- Making a thread directed at a single person (please send a PM)
- SELLING Legal, Open Source, Programs or Downloads (It's OK to give away for free)
- Asking to MM on people's threads
- Posting a "Free MM" thread before having been a member for more than 1 month
- Advertising in a section other than Idle Chat
- Racism
- Flaming
[Punishment] Immediate Ban
- Scamming
- Fake Transactions
- Posting / Giving a Link to Porn
- Selling, Giving Away, or Posting links to ILLEGAL downloads
- Impersonating TTG Staff
- Complete Spam (Same post / thread over and over again)
- Hacking, or Threatening to Hack, the Site or Another member (Non-Jokingly)
- Buying or Selling Phishing / Pharming sites
- Defacing a Site in ANY way that is affiliated with RuneCore or TTG
- Purposefully Posting / Giving a Link to Malicious Software or Downloads
Let me know if I missed something.
Post by: greazee on November 28, 2007, 12:14:47 AM
Post by: JB Lee on November 28, 2007, 12:25:18 AM
Post by: Yded on November 28, 2007, 04:44:06 AM
hurrah. but what about fake vouches...? same thing as transactions?
cause that could be confused in whether a vouch occurs or not and done by accident.
Post by: JB Lee on November 28, 2007, 10:11:52 AM
but, you guys can discuss
Post by: greazee on November 28, 2007, 01:02:35 PM
and i do remember allanon making that rule... but it doesnt make sense to say one thing is allowed because it isnt actually on this site.... oh yeah but if you do something to that site (that isnt this one) your banned...